Better than the over-detailed morass that was 3.5 ed Realms., 17 Sep 2008
Personally, as someone whose group isn't massively in love with the detail of the realms this comes as a breath of fresh air as it means that I actually get to create stuff on the fly more easily than before.

Well presented and full of ideas, 04 Sep 2008
Simply put, the writers of this volume had the arduous task of trying to keep the existing Realms players happy whilst, at the same time, providing a new and updated Realms for players starting a campaign for the first time (probably on the back of the 4th Edition Rules).

In essence, this product is very good and, having been a DM since the 1980s, this is one of the best campaign guides produced to date. There will be some obvious objections to the new Realms from existing players who are reluctant to change. However, if you don't like the changes then don't worry, the whole purpose of a product like this is to be a guide only, providing the bare bones of a campaign for you to develop yourself, and you are not obliged to blindly follow everything that is written. In other words, if you don't like the changes, stick to what you do like.

As for the rest of us, the guide provides an exciting changed world to explore. Fabulous.

Interesting Direction for an Old Friend, 01 Sep 2008
The Forgotten Realms has always been a problem to me - inspiring and yet impractical. I loved the feel of the setting, the age of it, the depth, the detail, and yet these were all of its problems too. The feel made it always generic, the age of it made it always hampered by the past, the depth made it a chore to run, and the detail made fans irritating to play with.
Ultimately, personal knowledge shouldn't affect in game knowledge to the degree which it did. A new-coming DM to Toril couldn't effectively run it if there were players in his or her group who loved it - they would spend forever correcting the DM on the authenticity of the setting. It's not that these players were *bad*, just that the setting was so static and so rich and so persuasive that it was hard to escape the idea that it should all be *exactly as written*. Beware the DM who would dare to change anything.
But this was by no means the only issue. Big NPCs dominated Toril. Drizzt and Elminster were more recognisable than the setting as a whole, and the number of awful "cameos" that occured in games was atrocious... as for the novels, the less said the better.
What about the variety of terrain and setting? In theory this was great - you can set your game in almost any surrounding and it'll still be the Forgotten Realms. You want trading cities and costal areas? The Sword Coast. You want exotic locales and organisations? Calisham! You want frozen wastes? The Silver Marches! You want to rip off Lord of the Rings? The Dalelands! So what was the problem with this? Well, ultimately, it was scale. Forgotten Realms worked well with this theory of specific location until you hit about 10th level, when the entire thing fell apart. Soon, reliable and quick long distance transportation was available. The idea of a cohesive world disappears when you can be in desert one minute, and ice fields the next. So how has this changed?

Well, 4th edition includes a lot fewer transport spells, and the folding of teleportation into Rituals (with which you need a "portal key") means that mundane transport is often the way you go first, and then use teleportation when you need to over long distances from set point to set point. Travel thus takes longer, the dramatic differences in setting aren't so obvious, and the world feels a lot more cohesive. The splitting of the game into tiers also helps, as it gives DMs more warning of when to prepare for these changes.

So what does the new setting look like? Well, Mystra is finally dead. FINALLY. I mean, seriously, is this like the fourth time? NEVER BRING HER BACK. The Spellplague changes the layout of the map in a big way, as does the bashing of Abeir into Toril. Hello new races, bye bye old races.

But what's the point of saying this, really? Old fans are going to be angry - "They got rid of gods! They changed the map!" Boo hoo. The setting needed a desperate change - it's been more or less static (on a fundemental level) for years and years. The changes are interesting, smartly done, and the changes to the system make the setting work well. In the end, if you loved Drizzt and co, and hate the idea of not knowing every single event of the setting, then stay away.

For the rest of us, this is an interesting, stunningly beautiful book. The entries are perhaps a little short, but this leaves freedom in the details whilst really giving you a feel for the setting and countries. There are a lot of new monsters, good info on antagonist groups, a lovely poster map, and interesting discussion of the world in general as well as the specific entries. The major criticisms are, perhaps, only that some of the old issues are still there (the odd mix and match of terrain amongst other things), and that occasionally an important piece of information is missing (how big is the population of Waterdeep ay? AY?). Still, an excellent buy.

Drab, dreary details, 30 Aug 2008
Firstly, it's worth pointing out that this is not a rulebook. That may be obvious to some, but I expected something with a few new races, some class-specific traits, new spells, that kind of thing. This is just background to the Realms. I assume -but can't say for sure- that Forgotten Realms Player's Guide (Forgotten Realms Supplement) (Dungeons & Dragons) (Dungeons & Dragons) will be more what I'm looking for, and the fact that WotC have split this into two books is a source of some irritation to me.

I agree with the other reviewers that this is just a wall of bland data. It puts me in mind of the First Edition FR Campaign Guide in terms of sheer volume of endless words; but that was clearly written entirely by people (Greenwood et al, but different et al) who had played in that world and loved it. Their passion for the mythos was there in every word. This just reads like some hack with a deadline and a wordcount to meet sat, wrote ten pages of worthwhile stuff, cut and pasted other peoples ideas to fill in the cracks, then filled the rest with whatever came to mind while they were drunk watching Krull.

And it's a real shame. Because the idea of 4th Ed was that it was supposed to be simple building blocks that even the most ADHD ridden kid could pick up and play like they'd pick up their PS3 controller. I love rules, but I also quite liked that idea, because I'm 31 and don't have time to read endless pages of unbroken paragraphs about the number of available toilets in the town of GenericFantasySettlement45-D. This is not written in a way you can just dip into it.

In short this book has too much of the wrong kind of information, and is appallingly presented in terms of accessibility.

So why two stars after all the spleen venting? Because those ten pages of worthwhile stuff are there, as are other people's ideas, and someone has made an effort to make it look pretty pretty. It's just a shame that such a rich campaign setting has been made to look so banal.



Poor Version of the Forgotten Realms, 28 Aug 2008
What were they thinking when they released this ? A real shame and I know some will love this book but compared to previous "Core Settings" releases this just not deserve more than two Stars. I agree with the previous reviewer when he said there were worse products out there - and that is why I gave it two rather than one.

Okay - Why ? Well, there IS a lot of info here... BUT too much banal and surface info. The majority of entries for a Country cover two pages and include artwork within those two pages. Most of the info is unimportant to the setting and they should have been given more "meat" rather than a "Starter" & "Dessert".

As an "old timer" I can fill in many of the omissions but for a new DM then the task will seem mountainous.

The Adventures at the start are okay(ish)but again, based on previous releases, they are average and contrived.

I just hope the next few releases are better

Better than the over-detailed morass that was 3.5 ed Realms., 17 Sep 2008
Personally, as someone whose group isn't massively in love with the detail of the realms this comes as a breath of fresh air as it means that I actually get to create stuff on the fly more easily than before.

Well presented and full of ideas, 04 Sep 2008
Simply put, the writers of this volume had the arduous task of trying to keep the existing Realms players happy whilst, at the same time, providing a new and updated Realms for players starting a campaign for the first time (probably on the back of the 4th Edition Rules).

In essence, this product is very good and, having been a DM since the 1980s, this is one of the best campaign guides produced to date. There will be some obvious objections to the new Realms from existing players who are reluctant to change. However, if you don't like the changes then don't worry, the whole purpose of a product like this is to be a guide only, providing the bare bones of a campaign for you to develop yourself, and you are not obliged to blindly follow everything that is written. In other words, if you don't like the changes, stick to what you do like.

As for the rest of us, the guide provides an exciting changed world to explore. Fabulous.

Interesting Direction for an Old Friend, 01 Sep 2008
The Forgotten Realms has always been a problem to me - inspiring and yet impractical. I loved the feel of the setting, the age of it, the depth, the detail, and yet these were all of its problems too. The feel made it always generic, the age of it made it always hampered by the past, the depth made it a chore to run, and the detail made fans irritating to play with.
Ultimately, personal knowledge shouldn't affect in game knowledge to the degree which it did. A new-coming DM to Toril couldn't effectively run it if there were players in his or her group who loved it - they would spend forever correcting the DM on the authenticity of the setting. It's not that these players were *bad*, just that the setting was so static and so rich and so persuasive that it was hard to escape the idea that it should all be *exactly as written*. Beware the DM who would dare to change anything.
But this was by no means the only issue. Big NPCs dominated Toril. Drizzt and Elminster were more recognisable than the setting as a whole, and the number of awful "cameos" that occured in games was atrocious... as for the novels, the less said the better.
What about the variety of terrain and setting? In theory this was great - you can set your game in almost any surrounding and it'll still be the Forgotten Realms. You want trading cities and costal areas? The Sword Coast. You want exotic locales and organisations? Calisham! You want frozen wastes? The Silver Marches! You want to rip off Lord of the Rings? The Dalelands! So what was the problem with this? Well, ultimately, it was scale. Forgotten Realms worked well with this theory of specific location until you hit about 10th level, when the entire thing fell apart. Soon, reliable and quick long distance transportation was available. The idea of a cohesive world disappears when you can be in desert one minute, and ice fields the next. So how has this changed?

Well, 4th edition includes a lot fewer transport spells, and the folding of teleportation into Rituals (with which you need a "portal key") means that mundane transport is often the way you go first, and then use teleportation when you need to over long distances from set point to set point. Travel thus takes longer, the dramatic differences in setting aren't so obvious, and the world feels a lot more cohesive. The splitting of the game into tiers also helps, as it gives DMs more warning of when to prepare for these changes.

So what does the new setting look like? Well, Mystra is finally dead. FINALLY. I mean, seriously, is this like the fourth time? NEVER BRING HER BACK. The Spellplague changes the layout of the map in a big way, as does the bashing of Abeir into Toril. Hello new races, bye bye old races.

But what's the point of saying this, really? Old fans are going to be angry - "They got rid of gods! They changed the map!" Boo hoo. The setting needed a desperate change - it's been more or less static (on a fundemental level) for years and years. The changes are interesting, smartly done, and the changes to the system make the setting work well. In the end, if you loved Drizzt and co, and hate the idea of not knowing every single event of the setting, then stay away.

For the rest of us, this is an interesting, stunningly beautiful book. The entries are perhaps a little short, but this leaves freedom in the details whilst really giving you a feel for the setting and countries. There are a lot of new monsters, good info on antagonist groups, a lovely poster map, and interesting discussion of the world in general as well as the specific entries. The major criticisms are, perhaps, only that some of the old issues are still there (the odd mix and match of terrain amongst other things), and that occasionally an important piece of information is missing (how big is the population of Waterdeep ay? AY?). Still, an excellent buy.

Drab, dreary details, 30 Aug 2008
Firstly, it's worth pointing out that this is not a rulebook. That may be obvious to some, but I expected something with a few new races, some class-specific traits, new spells, that kind of thing. This is just background to the Realms. I assume -but can't say for sure- that Forgotten Realms Player's Guide (Forgotten Realms Supplement) (Dungeons & Dragons) (Dungeons & Dragons) will be more what I'm looking for, and the fact that WotC have split this into two books is a source of some irritation to me.

I agree with the other reviewers that this is just a wall of bland data. It puts me in mind of the First Edition FR Campaign Guide in terms of sheer volume of endless words; but that was clearly written entirely by people (Greenwood et al, but different et al) who had played in that world and loved it. Their passion for the mythos was there in every word. This just reads like some hack with a deadline and a wordcount to meet sat, wrote ten pages of worthwhile stuff, cut and pasted other peoples ideas to fill in the cracks, then filled the rest with whatever came to mind while they were drunk watching Krull.

And it's a real shame. Because the idea of 4th Ed was that it was supposed to be simple building blocks that even the most ADHD ridden kid could pick up and play like they'd pick up their PS3 controller. I love rules, but I also quite liked that idea, because I'm 31 and don't have time to read endless pages of unbroken paragraphs about the number of available toilets in the town of GenericFantasySettlement45-D. This is not written in a way you can just dip into it.

In short this book has too much of the wrong kind of information, and is appallingly presented in terms of accessibility.

So why two stars after all the spleen venting? Because those ten pages of worthwhile stuff are there, as are other people's ideas, and someone has made an effort to make it look pretty pretty. It's just a shame that such a rich campaign setting has been made to look so banal.



Poor Version of the Forgotten Realms, 28 Aug 2008
What were they thinking when they released this ? A real shame and I know some will love this book but compared to previous "Core Settings" releases this just not deserve more than two Stars. I agree with the previous reviewer when he said there were worse products out there - and that is why I gave it two rather than one.

Okay - Why ? Well, there IS a lot of info here... BUT too much banal and surface info. The majority of entries for a Country cover two pages and include artwork within those two pages. Most of the info is unimportant to the setting and they should have been given more "meat" rather than a "Starter" & "Dessert".

As an "old timer" I can fill in many of the omissions but for a new DM then the task will seem mountainous.

The Adventures at the start are okay(ish)but again, based on previous releases, they are average and contrived.

I just hope the next few releases are better

Not what we were waiting for... SPOILERS, 01 Dec 2008
Ed, Ed where for art thou Ed? This isn't what we'd hoped for from the creator of the Forgotten Realms, the very bard himself. I can understand the apathy after what they did to your, heck OUR, beloved Realms in the name of crass commerce, but this outing, indeed all of the books in the trilogy read as more of a *insert name of lesser author here* writing in the style of Ed Greenwood than an offering from the master himself. Contractions? Check. More characters with odd names than one can keep track of? Check. Lesser people speaking their minds to important people and those important people thereby learning? Check. Everyone laughing when that happens except the protagonists? Check? Elminster being irascible? Check.

It's all there, but it doesn't flow, it has no soul and the characters, should I say caricatures?, just don't seem to matter; they seem to be actors playing the Knights and not the Knights themselves, it all feels somehow empty. As to the characters where are they? Merith Strongbow, Lanseril Snowmantle, Illistyl Eleventree, Sharantyr, Mourngrym Amcathra and Shaerl Rowanmantle do not appear in the trilogy. I'll say that again as it may defy belief on the first reading; they don't appear. Torm and Rathan Thentraver are bit parts! You see I've been moved to the use of an exclamation mark in my disbelief. It's arguable that Torm and Rathan are two of the best of the Realms, let alone Ed's stable and they have about three lines each.

It even has stlarning continuity errors for Oghma's sake: Why is Vangerdahast kitting up in a mage's panoply only to sit behind a desk? Poor show Ed. The thing is Ed Greenwood is such a competent writer. He's a man who can not only create a world, but can convey it in rich detail in way which so few other Realms writers can, this tripe is not worthy of him. I recommend his other work, or that of the ever improving R. A. Salvatore.

Sweet water and light laughter then,

pm

Better than the over-detailed morass that was 3.5 ed Realms., 17 Sep 2008
Personally, as someone whose group isn't massively in love with the detail of the realms this comes as a breath of fresh air as it means that I actually get to create stuff on the fly more easily than before.

Well presented and full of ideas, 04 Sep 2008
Simply put, the writers of this volume had the arduous task of trying to keep the existing Realms players happy whilst, at the same time, providing a new and updated Realms for players starting a campaign for the first time (probably on the back of the 4th Edition Rules).

In essence, this product is very good and, having been a DM since the 1980s, this is one of the best campaign guides produced to date. There will be some obvious objections to the new Realms from existing players who are reluctant to change. However, if you don't like the changes then don't worry, the whole purpose of a product like this is to be a guide only, providing the bare bones of a campaign for you to develop yourself, and you are not obliged to blindly follow everything that is written. In other words, if you don't like the changes, stick to what you do like.

As for the rest of us, the guide provides an exciting changed world to explore. Fabulous.

Interesting Direction for an Old Friend, 01 Sep 2008
The Forgotten Realms has always been a problem to me - inspiring and yet impractical. I loved the feel of the setting, the age of it, the depth, the detail, and yet these were all of its problems too. The feel made it always generic, the age of it made it always hampered by the past, the depth made it a chore to run, and the detail made fans irritating to play with.
Ultimately, personal knowledge shouldn't affect in game knowledge to the degree which it did. A new-coming DM to Toril couldn't effectively run it if there were players in his or her group who loved it - they would spend forever correcting the DM on the authenticity of the setting. It's not that these players were *bad*, just that the setting was so static and so rich and so persuasive that it was hard to escape the idea that it should all be *exactly as written*. Beware the DM who would dare to change anything.
But this was by no means the only issue. Big NPCs dominated Toril. Drizzt and Elminster were more recognisable than the setting as a whole, and the number of awful "cameos" that occured in games was atrocious... as for the novels, the less said the better.
What about the variety of terrain and setting? In theory this was great - you can set your game in almost any surrounding and it'll still be the Forgotten Realms. You want trading cities and costal areas? The Sword Coast. You want exotic locales and organisations? Calisham! You want frozen wastes? The Silver Marches! You want to rip off Lord of the Rings? The Dalelands! So what was the problem with this? Well, ultimately, it was scale. Forgotten Realms worked well with this theory of specific location until you hit about 10th level, when the entire thing fell apart. Soon, reliable and quick long distance transportation was available. The idea of a cohesive world disappears when you can be in desert one minute, and ice fields the next. So how has this changed?

Well, 4th edition includes a lot fewer transport spells, and the folding of teleportation into Rituals (with which you need a "portal key") means that mundane transport is often the way you go first, and then use teleportation when you need to over long distances from set point to set point. Travel thus takes longer, the dramatic differences in setting aren't so obvious, and the world feels a lot more cohesive. The splitting of the game into tiers also helps, as it gives DMs more warning of when to prepare for these changes.

So what does the new setting look like? Well, Mystra is finally dead. FINALLY. I mean, seriously, is this like the fourth time? NEVER BRING HER BACK. The Spellplague changes the layout of the map in a big way, as does the bashing of Abeir into Toril. Hello new races, bye bye old races.

But what's the point of saying this, really? Old fans are going to be angry - "They got rid of gods! They changed the map!" Boo hoo. The setting needed a desperate change - it's been more or less static (on a fundemental level) for years and years. The changes are interesting, smartly done, and the changes to the system make the setting work well. In the end, if you loved Drizzt and co, and hate the idea of not knowing every single event of the setting, then stay away.

For the rest of us, this is an interesting, stunningly beautiful book. The entries are perhaps a little short, but this leaves freedom in the details whilst really giving you a feel for the setting and countries. There are a lot of new monsters, good info on antagonist groups, a lovely poster map, and interesting discussion of the world in general as well as the specific entries. The major criticisms are, perhaps, only that some of the old issues are still there (the odd mix and match of terrain amongst other things), and that occasionally an important piece of information is missing (how big is the population of Waterdeep ay? AY?). Still, an excellent buy.

Drab, dreary details, 30 Aug 2008
Firstly, it's worth pointing out that this is not a rulebook. That may be obvious to some, but I expected something with a few new races, some class-specific traits, new spells, that kind of thing. This is just background to the Realms. I assume -but can't say for sure- that Forgotten Realms Player's Guide (Forgotten Realms Supplement) (Dungeons & Dragons) (Dungeons & Dragons) will be more what I'm looking for, and the fact that WotC have split this into two books is a source of some irritation to me.

I agree with the other reviewers that this is just a wall of bland data. It puts me in mind of the First Edition FR Campaign Guide in terms of sheer volume of endless words; but that was clearly written entirely by people (Greenwood et al, but different et al) who had played in that world and loved it. Their passion for the mythos was there in every word. This just reads like some hack with a deadline and a wordcount to meet sat, wrote ten pages of worthwhile stuff, cut and pasted other peoples ideas to fill in the cracks, then filled the rest with whatever came to mind while they were drunk watching Krull.

And it's a real shame. Because the idea of 4th Ed was that it was supposed to be simple building blocks that even the most ADHD ridden kid could pick up and play like they'd pick up their PS3 controller. I love rules, but I also quite liked that idea, because I'm 31 and don't have time to read endless pages of unbroken paragraphs about the number of available toilets in the town of GenericFantasySettlement45-D. This is not written in a way you can just dip into it.

In short this book has too much of the wrong kind of information, and is appallingly presented in terms of accessibility.

So why two stars after all the spleen venting? Because those ten pages of worthwhile stuff are there, as are other people's ideas, and someone has made an effort to make it look pretty pretty. It's just a shame that such a rich campaign setting has been made to look so banal.



Poor Version of the Forgotten Realms, 28 Aug 2008
What were they thinking when they released this ? A real shame and I know some will love this book but compared to previous "Core Settings" releases this just not deserve more than two Stars. I agree with the previous reviewer when he said there were worse products out there - and that is why I gave it two rather than one.

Okay - Why ? Well, there IS a lot of info here... BUT too much banal and surface info. The majority of entries for a Country cover two pages and include artwork within those two pages. Most of the info is unimportant to the setting and they should have been given more "meat" rather than a "Starter" & "Dessert".

As an "old timer" I can fill in many of the omissions but for a new DM then the task will seem mountainous.

The Adventures at the start are okay(ish)but again, based on previous releases, they are average and contrived.

I just hope the next few releases are better

Not what we were waiting for... SPOILERS, 01 Dec 2008
Ed, Ed where for art thou Ed? This isn't what we'd hoped for from the creator of the Forgotten Realms, the very bard himself. I can understand the apathy after what they did to your, heck OUR, beloved Realms in the name of crass commerce, but this outing, indeed all of the books in the trilogy read as more of a *insert name of lesser author here* writing in the style of Ed Greenwood than an offering from the master himself. Contractions? Check. More characters with odd names than one can keep track of? Check. Lesser people speaking their minds to important people and those important people thereby learning? Check. Everyone laughing when that happens except the protagonists? Check? Elminster being irascible? Check.

It's all there, but it doesn't flow, it has no soul and the characters, should I say caricatures?, just don't seem to matter; they seem to be actors playing the Knights and not the Knights themselves, it all feels somehow empty. As to the characters where are they? Merith Strongbow, Lanseril Snowmantle, Illistyl Eleventree, Sharantyr, Mourngrym Amcathra and Shaerl Rowanmantle do not appear in the trilogy. I'll say that again as it may defy belief on the first reading; they don't appear. Torm and Rathan Thentraver are bit parts! You see I've been moved to the use of an exclamation mark in my disbelief. It's arguable that Torm and Rathan are two of the best of the Realms, let alone Ed's stable and they have about three lines each.

It even has stlarning continuity errors for Oghma's sake: Why is Vangerdahast kitting up in a mage's panoply only to sit behind a desk? Poor show Ed. The thing is Ed Greenwood is such a competent writer. He's a man who can not only create a world, but can convey it in rich detail in way which so few other Realms writers can, this tripe is not worthy of him. I recommend his other work, or that of the ever improving R. A. Salvatore.

Sweet water and light laughter then,

pm

A Greenwood novel Par Excellence . . . ., 13 Jul 2000
This book has to be one of the richest and most most diverse of Ed Greenwoods many Forgotten Realms novels. The character of Elminster has everything you expect from a wise sage doing his Goddesses bidding - walking into traps willingly - excellent stuff !

Additionally, the fully fleshed out elven race here has much to commend it. It shows openly that even amongst the elves there is individual hatreds and bitterness - not the more usual holier than thou kind.

The magic in the book is strong and sure of itself and doesn't go out of its way to swamp the storyline too much !

An Excellent book well worth the purchase !

An ok book about Elminster, 28 Jun 2000
The book was good reading, but I found the magic in it confusing at times. The way the spells worked and the way Elminster often could trick mages, by using it in weird ways without explanation of how he did it. But for anyone who likes Elminster (like me) the book is a good read and supplies info on Elminster early adventures.

Better than the over-detailed morass that was 3.5 ed Realms., 17 Sep 2008
Personally, as someone whose group isn't massively in love with the detail of the realms this comes as a breath of fresh air as it means that I actually get to create stuff on the fly more easily than before.

Well presented and full of ideas, 04 Sep 2008
Simply put, the writers of this volume had the arduous task of trying to keep the existing Realms players happy whilst, at the same time, providing a new and updated Realms for players starting a campaign for the first time (probably on the back of the 4th Edition Rules).

In essence, this product is very good and, having been a DM since the 1980s, this is one of the best campaign guides produced to date. There will be some obvious objections to the new Realms from existing players who are reluctant to change. However, if you don't like the changes then don't worry, the whole purpose of a product like this is to be a guide only, providing the bare bones of a campaign for you to develop yourself, and you are not obliged to blindly follow everything that is written. In other words, if you don't like the changes, stick to what you do like.

As for the rest of us, the guide provides an exciting changed world to explore. Fabulous.

Interesting Direction for an Old Friend, 01 Sep 2008
The Forgotten Realms has always been a problem to me - inspiring and yet impractical. I loved the feel of the setting, the age of it, the depth, the detail, and yet these were all of its problems too. The feel made it always generic, the age of it made it always hampered by the past, the depth made it a chore to run, and the detail made fans irritating to play with.
Ultimately, personal knowledge shouldn't affect in game knowledge to the degree which it did. A new-coming DM to Toril couldn't effectively run it if there were players in his or her group who loved it - they would spend forever correcting the DM on the authenticity of the setting. It's not that these players were *bad*, just that the setting was so static and so rich and so persuasive that it was hard to escape the idea that it should all be *exactly as written*. Beware the DM who would dare to change anything.
But this was by no means the only issue. Big NPCs dominated Toril. Drizzt and Elminster were more recognisable than the setting as a whole, and the number of awful "cameos" that occured in games was atrocious... as for the novels, the less said the better.
What about the variety of terrain and setting? In theory this was great - you can set your game in almost any surrounding and it'll still be the Forgotten Realms. You want trading cities and costal areas? The Sword Coast. You want exotic locales and organisations? Calisham! You want frozen wastes? The Silver Marches! You want to rip off Lord of the Rings? The Dalelands! So what was the problem with this? Well, ultimately, it was scale. Forgotten Realms worked well with this theory of specific location until you hit about 10th level, when the entire thing fell apart. Soon, reliable and quick long distance transportation was available. The idea of a cohesive world disappears when you can be in desert one minute, and ice fields the next. So how has this changed?

Well, 4th edition includes a lot fewer transport spells, and the folding of teleportation into Rituals (with which you need a "portal key") means that mundane transport is often the way you go first, and then use teleportation when you need to over long distances from set point to set point. Travel thus takes longer, the dramatic differences in setting aren't so obvious, and the world feels a lot more cohesive. The splitting of the game into tiers also helps, as it gives DMs more warning of when to prepare for these changes.

So what does the new setting look like? Well, Mystra is finally dead. FINALLY. I mean, seriously, is this like the fourth time? NEVER BRING HER BACK. The Spellplague changes the layout of the map in a big way, as does the bashing of Abeir into Toril. Hello new races, bye bye old races.

But what's the point of saying this, really? Old fans are going to be angry - "They got rid of gods! They changed the map!" Boo hoo. The setting needed a desperate change - it's been more or less static (on a fundemental level) for years and years. The changes are interesting, smartly done, and the changes to the system make the setting work well. In the end, if you loved Drizzt and co, and hate the idea of not knowing every single event of the setting, then stay away.

For the rest of us, this is an interesting, stunningly beautiful book. The entries are perhaps a little short, but this leaves freedom in the details whilst really giving you a feel for the setting and countries. There are a lot of new monsters, good info on antagonist groups, a lovely poster map, and interesting discussion of the world in general as well as the specific entries. The major criticisms are, perhaps, only that some of the old issues are still there (the odd mix and match of terrain amongst other things), and that occasionally an important piece of information is missing (how big is the population of Waterdeep ay? AY?). Still, an excellent buy.

Drab, dreary details, 30 Aug 2008
Firstly, it's worth pointing out that this is not a rulebook. That may be obvious to some, but I expected something with a few new races, some class-specific traits, new spells, that kind of thing. This is just background to the Realms. I assume -but can't say for sure- that Forgotten Realms Player's Guide (Forgotten Realms Supplement) (Dungeons & Dragons) (Dungeons & Dragons) will be more what I'm looking for, and the fact that WotC have split this into two books is a source of some irritation to me.

I agree with the other reviewers that this is just a wall of bland data. It puts me in mind of the First Edition FR Campaign Guide in terms of sheer volume of endless words; but that was clearly written entirely by people (Greenwood et al, but different et al) who had played in that world and loved it. Their passion for the mythos was there in every word. This just reads like some hack with a deadline and a wordcount to meet sat, wrote ten pages of worthwhile stuff, cut and pasted other peoples ideas to fill in the cracks, then filled the rest with whatever came to mind while they were drunk watching Krull.

And it's a real shame. Because the idea of 4th Ed was that it was supposed to be simple building blocks that even the most ADHD ridden kid could pick up and play like they'd pick up their PS3 controller. I love rules, but I also quite liked that idea, because I'm 31 and don't have time to read endless pages of unbroken paragraphs about the number of available toilets in the town of GenericFantasySettlement45-D. This is not written in a way you can just dip into it.

In short this book has too much of the wrong kind of information, and is appallingly presented in terms of accessibility.

So why two stars after all the spleen venting? Because those ten pages of worthwhile stuff are there, as are other people's ideas, and someone has made an effort to make it look pretty pretty. It's just a shame that such a rich campaign setting has been made to look so banal.



Poor Version of the Forgotten Realms, 28 Aug 2008
What were they thinking when they released this ? A real shame and I know some will love this book but compared to previous "Core Settings" releases this just not deserve more than two Stars. I agree with the previous reviewer when he said there were worse products out there - and that is why I gave it two rather than one.

Okay - Why ? Well, there IS a lot of info here... BUT too much banal and surface info. The majority of entries for a Country cover two pages and include artwork within those two pages. Most of the info is unimportant to the setting and they should have been given more "meat" rather than a "Starter" & "Dessert".

As an "old timer" I can fill in many of the omissions but for a new DM then the task will seem mountainous.

The Adventures at the start are okay(ish)but again, based on previous releases, they are average and contrived.

I just hope the next few releases are better

Not what we were waiting for... SPOILERS, 01 Dec 2008
Ed, Ed where for art thou Ed? This isn't what we'd hoped for from the creator of the Forgotten Realms, the very bard himself. I can understand the apathy after what they did to your, heck OUR, beloved Realms in the name of crass commerce, but this outing, indeed all of the books in the trilogy read as more of a *insert name of lesser author here* writing in the style of Ed Greenwood than an offering from the master himself. Contractions? Check. More characters with odd names than one can keep track of? Check. Lesser people speaking their minds to important people and those important people thereby learning? Check. Everyone laughing when that happens except the protagonists? Check? Elminster being irascible? Check.

It's all there, but it doesn't flow, it has no soul and the characters, should I say caricatures?, just don't seem to matter; they seem to be actors playing the Knights and not the Knights themselves, it all feels somehow empty. As to the characters where are they? Merith Strongbow, Lanseril Snowmantle, Illistyl Eleventree, Sharantyr, Mourngrym Amcathra and Shaerl Rowanmantle do not appear in the trilogy. I'll say that again as it may defy belief on the first reading; they don't appear. Torm and Rathan Thentraver are bit parts! You see I've been moved to the use of an exclamation mark in my disbelief. It's arguable that Torm and Rathan are two of the best of the Realms, let alone Ed's stable and they have about three lines each.

It even has stlarning continuity errors for Oghma's sake: Why is Vangerdahast kitting up in a mage's panoply only to sit behind a desk? Poor show Ed. The thing is Ed Greenwood is such a competent writer. He's a man who can not only create a world, but can convey it in rich detail in way which so few other Realms writers can, this tripe is not worthy of him. I recommend his other work, or that of the ever improving R. A. Salvatore.

Sweet water and light laughter then,

pm

A Greenwood novel Par Excellence . . . ., 13 Jul 2000
This book has to be one of the richest and most most diverse of Ed Greenwoods many Forgotten Realms novels. The character of Elminster has everything you expect from a wise sage doing his Goddesses bidding - walking into traps willingly - excellent stuff !

Additionally, the fully fleshed out elven race here has much to commend it. It shows openly that even amongst the elves there is individual hatreds and bitterness - not the more usual holier than thou kind.

The magic in the book is strong and sure of itself and doesn't go out of its way to swamp the storyline too much !

An Excellent book well worth the purchase !

An ok book about Elminster, 28 Jun 2000
The book was good reading, but I found the magic in it confusing at times. The way the spells worked and the way Elminster often could trick mages, by using it in weird ways without explanation of how he did it. But for anyone who likes Elminster (like me) the book is a good read and supplies info on Elminster early adventures.

Not as detailed nor as useful as advertised, 09 Jun 2008
The history of the Forgotten Realms fantasy world is long and complex. Since the Realms first appeared in print in 1987, with the novel Darkwalker on Moonshae and the original first edition of the Forgotten Realms boxed setting, over 210 novels and dozens of game products have been published, each adding to the canon and history of the world. This doesn't include the extensive history and backstory built up by creator Ed Greenwood whilst he ran the Realms as his own private creation for the twenty years prior to that. The story and history of the Realms have become somewhat convoluted in the forty years they have existed.

According to the blurb, The Grand History of the Realms is supposed to detail the complete history of the Realms as explained in the novels, computer games and RPG products previously published. That claim has to be taken with a grain of salt the size of Lake Michigan. It's a suspiciously slim tome for such a grand endeavour, and indeed the events of many novels, sourcebooks, computer games and adventure modules go completely unmentioned in the book, making its worth somewhat dubious. More irritatingly, the book also fails to mention the sources for its dates and events. What is new material and what is old? What comes from existing game products and what comes from the novels? Combined with the lack of an index, this even further lessens the value of the book. Reading up on the Tuigan Invasion is cool, but if you want to delve further into the events, what novels do you read? What game products do you look up? The book doesn't give you any help on that score.

Of course, what makes this all the more irritating is that the original, free version of the book (assembled by Brian R. James when he was just a fan providing a resource to candlekeep.com) does annotate all of its dates with the source in question. And, seperately, other sourcebooks and Dragon magazine articles have provided dates for all of the novels. Combining these sources into the book and providing a more substantial tome would have been more useful.

Unfortunately, the book's biggest hindrance is that it is simply a timeline, not a narrative history, so if you want to read up on the history of Elminster, for example, you have to trawl through the entire book and pick up his story as you go (this is made all the more difficult as, ridiculously, Elminster's birth date is not mentioned either). A narrative history would put together Elminster's history in one chapter and set it in context among the greater history of the world. This book singularly fails to do that. There is also the issue that where certain dating contorversies have emerged, rather than come to some conclusion about each one, the writers have sometimes put in both conflicting dates. As a result some notable historical figures die in a civil war, only to die again in exactly the same civil war fourteen years later. Right.

The next problem is that the transition of the Dungeons and Dragons game from 3rd to 4th Edition, including the adoption of a completely new system of magic, means that the Realms have also got to change and rather than simply retcon the transition (as they did between 2nd and 3rd Edition) the game designers have decided to nuke the Realms by killing the Goddess of Magic (along with about fifty other deities), disrupting the magic system for the planet, nuking an entire continent for no logical reason and devastating several of the others (including Faerun, the main Realms continent). They've also advanced the timeline by 104 years (meaning that about half the characters and NPCs in the Realms that fans are familiar with are suddenly dead of old age). Needless to say, many Realms fans aren't happy about this.

Finally, on the criticism front, the book uses a ton of recycled art, sometimes with wrong or incorrect captions, and some of it is from completely different settings with no relevance to the Realms (the unexplained presence of a warforged - a sort of killer robotic golem - from Eberron being a clear example).

The book does have some saving graces, however. A few loose ends left dangling from 2nd Edition in areas that were not addressed in 3rd (such as the outcome of the Sythillisian War between an empire of ogres and the human merchant kingdom of Amn) are finally resolved, and the timeline advances the current history of the Realms forward by about ten years (before the centry-long leap into 4th Edition), making it slightly easier for Dungeon Masters running games advancing in real time to keep track of what is going on. There's also some fine new pieces of Realmslore, such as the first-ever maps of the Imaskar Empire and the Kingdom of Jhaamdath, and an interesting map depicting the landmasses of Toril when they were just one huge supercontinent. Also, since the book doesn't introduce any new rules, it can be used happily by those who are playing either 3rd or 4th Edition, or even the die-hards still using older systems. That said, although the writers have gone to some lengths not to make it an obvious gaming product (no D&D logo anywhere on the book, encouraging sales to bookshops as well as gaming hobby stores), its worth for non-gamer fans of the Realms, such as perhaps readers of RA Salvatore's Drizzt Do'Urden novels or Paul S. Kemp's Erevis Cale books, is virtually nil due to the lack of focus on many of the events in the novels.

The Grand History of the Realms (**½) is therefore a failure, albeit an ambitious one.

Not especially useful, 16 May 2008
This book is an interesting resource and has it's uses but it's not as helpful as you might expect. According to the introduction the grand history started life as a fan compiled resource, as such it would be an impressive resource. Unfortunately as a book it is of questionable value. It's a bit hit and miss what events are recorded and what are skipped. There is no index which makes it a poor resource for reference. At the same time it's a bit too dry to be much fun to flick through. About the only way to use the book is to read through it which is a very dry experience. In addition it doesn't give references for the resource information originates from so if you want to read further then you need to look it up elsewhere. Brian R. James' unauthorised fan version is actually still available and it is a much more useful resource, it's searchable and it does reference the source of information.

The amount of artwork recycled from else where is shocking, in fact about the only piece of artwork I'm sure isn't recycled is the cover. The book is about 50% sidebars, which are actually pretty interesting but of very marginal use.

About the only reason I can see for this book existing is to pad the schedule before fourth edition is released. Interestingly this book isn't actually under the D&D banner while it is Forgotten Realms branded and is formatted in the same style as other third edition Forgotten Realms books. It has no rules or system related material. I suppose it's sole merit is the it is equally useful (useless) a resource for Fourth Edition.

It's an entertaining oddity but it fails to be a useful resource. Get the unauthorised version for free. If you a hardcore Forgotten Realms fan and the idea of this book appeals then clearly it has some value but even then get the original unauthorised version too.

A good but flawed history book, 30 Dec 2007
First off, if you're not interested in the Forgotten Realms world then this book isn't for you. It has no rules, monsters, feats, spells or anything else that you can use in your own campaign setting. What it has is 160 pages of timeline entries, essays & excerpts of historical lore, and a compiled listing of the rulers through the ages of Faerun's various nations.

As a history book this is very useful to any DM wanting to set his game in the Realms, as it makes it easier (but still not particularly easy as the book lacks an index) to find mention of events and the sequence in which they occured. Some of this is fascinating reading, and at times (if you know how events turn out) there is the sense of impending doom as each entry leads towards some unfortunate event (Annihilation of Jhaamdath, Fall of Netheril etc).

The book however suffers from several flaws that whuile they by no means ruin the work, they do lessen it considerably. I've already mentioned the lack of an index, but I'll add to that that the timeline is far from complete and there are many events in novels and sourcebooks that aren't listed here (the destruction of the city of Cursrah in -6048DR for example). Also while the book features some (but not nearly enough) new maps, it uses almost entirely recycled artwork from other works, many of which are not paticularly well suited to what they are used to represent (the most obvious being the Warforged from the Eberron setting).

In short if you run or are planning to run a campaign in the Forgotten Realms then get this book, but don't expect it to hold all the answers or for you to be easily able to find those answers it does hold.

Very nice book, 03 Oct 2007
I just got this book as a gift for my birthday. I have played many games in the realms and I love to read the literature set in them. As anther review has said this book has very little to interest players and it will only help a DM if they need want to know the order of events. But I do have one gripe, this book uses pictures published in other books, one instance has a character on horse back with a shield with the logo of the Halfling god from the core books. I didn't consider this so bad but it also contains images of Warforged from Eberron which seemed just an excuse not to get new art drawn. This comment is not to moan but to explain why I gave it only four stars.


Good History Book!!, 02 Oct 2007
If your interested in the history of the Realms, meaning what happened, this is the book for you. According to me any FR fan should have this book as it is something that hasn't ever been printed before. Needles to say you won't be using this book in your games if at all. Maybe a DM if he likes to be chronologically accurate impressing his players with extra knowledge and thus flavor.
Its interesting if you have read many FR literature books and want to find out when (and in relation to other event) very important events took place. If you are a collector its nice to have. if you are an obscure FR knowledge freak its mandatory to have. If you are an occasional player/reader and do not care much about the Toril happenings this isn't the book for you!
Overall its well enough planned, with some good art and an impressive cover and a lot of data. However I was looking for index of events and was disappointed.

Better than the over-detailed morass that was 3.5 ed Realms., 17 Sep 2008
Personally, as someone whose group isn't massively in love with the detail of the realms this comes as a breath of fresh air as it means that I actually get to create stuff on the fly more easily than before.

Well presented and full of ideas, 04 Sep 2008
Simply put, the writers of this volume had the arduous task of trying to keep the existing Realms players happy whilst, at the same time, providing a new and updated Realms for players starting a campaign for the first time (probably on the back of the 4th Edition Rules).

In essence, this product is very good and, having been a DM since the 1980s, this is one of the best campaign guides produced to date. There will be some obvious objections to the new Realms from existing players who are reluctant to change. However, if you don't like the changes then don't worry, the whole purpose of a product like this is to be a guide only, providing the bare bones of a campaign for you to develop yourself, and you are not obliged to blindly follow everything that is written. In other words, if you don't like the changes, stick to what you do like.

As for the rest of us, the guide provides an exciting changed world to explore. Fabulous.

Interesting Direction for an Old Friend, 01 Sep 2008
The Forgotten Realms has always been a problem to me - inspiring and yet impractical. I loved the feel of the setting, the age of it, the depth, the detail, and yet these were all of its problems too. The feel made it always generic, the age of it made it always hampered by the past, the depth made it a chore to run, and the detail made fans irritating to play with.
Ultimately, personal knowledge shouldn't affect in game knowledge to the degree which it did. A new-coming DM to Toril couldn't effectively run it if there were players in his or her group who loved it - they would spend forever correcting the DM on the authenticity of the setting. It's not that these players were *bad*, just that the setting was so static and so rich and so persuasive that it was hard to escape the idea that it should all be *exactly as written*. Beware the DM who would dare to change anything.
But this was by no means the only issue. Big NPCs dominated Toril. Drizzt and Elminster were more recognisable than the setting as a whole, and the number of awful "cameos" that occured in games was atrocious... as for the novels, the less said the better.
What about the variety of terrain and setting? In theory this was great - you can set your game in almost any surrounding and it'll still be the Forgotten Realms. You want trading cities and costal areas? The Sword Coast. You want exotic locales and organisations? Calisham! You want frozen wastes? The Silver Marches! You want to rip off Lord of the Rings? The Dalelands! So what was the problem with this? Well, ultimately, it was scale. Forgotten Realms worked well with this theory of specific location until you hit about 10th level, when the entire thing fell apart. Soon, reliable and quick long distance transportation was available. The idea of a cohesive world disappears when you can be in desert one minute, and ice fields the next. So how has this changed?

Well, 4th edition includes a lot fewer transport spells, and the folding of teleportation into Rituals (with which you need a "portal key") means that mundane transport is often the way you go first, and then use teleportation when you need to over long distances from set point to set point. Travel thus takes longer, the dramatic differences in setting aren't so obvious, and the world feels a lot more cohesive. The splitting of the game into tiers also helps, as it gives DMs more warning of when to prepare for these changes.

So what does the new setting look like? Well, Mystra is finally dead. FINALLY. I mean, seriously, is this like the fourth time? NEVER BRING HER BACK. The Spellplague changes the layout of the map in a big way, as does the bashing of Abeir into Toril. Hello new races, bye bye old races.

But what's the point of saying this, really? Old fans are going to be angry - "They got rid of gods! They changed the map!" Boo hoo. The setting needed a desperate change - it's been more or less static (on a fundemental level) for years and years. The changes are interesting, smartly done, and the changes to the system make the setting work well. In the end, if you loved Drizzt and co, and hate the idea of not knowing every single event of the setting, then stay away.

For the rest of us, this is an interesting, stunningly beautiful book. The entries are perhaps a little short, but this leaves freedom in the details whilst really giving you a feel for the setting and countries. There are a lot of new monsters, good info on antagonist groups, a lovely poster map, and interesting discussion of the world in general as well as the specific entries. The major criticisms are, perhaps, only that some of the old issues are still there (the odd mix and match of terrain amongst other things), and that occasionally an important piece of information is missing (how big is the population of Waterdeep ay? AY?). Still, an excellent buy.

Drab, dreary details, 30 Aug 2008
Firstly, it's worth pointing out that this is not a rulebook. That may be obvious to some, but I expected something with a few new races, some class-specific traits, new spells, that kind of thing. This is just background to the Realms. I assume -but can't say for sure- that Forgotten Realms Player's Guide (Forgotten Realms Supplement) (Dungeons & Dragons) (Dungeons & Dragons) will be more what I'm looking for, and the fact that WotC have split this into two books is a source of some irritation to me.

I agree with the other reviewers that this is just a wall of bland data. It puts me in mind of the First Edition FR Campaign Guide in terms of sheer volume of endless words; but that was clearly written entirely by people (Greenwood et al, but different et al) who had played in that world and loved it. Their passion for the mythos was there in every word. This just reads like some hack with a deadline and a wordcount to meet sat, wrote ten pages of worthwhile stuff, cut and pasted other peoples ideas to fill in the cracks, then filled the rest with whatever came to mind while they were drunk watching Krull.

And it's a real shame. Because the idea of 4th Ed was that it was supposed to be simple building blocks that even the most ADHD ridden kid could pick up and play like they'd pick up their PS3 controller. I love rules, but I also quite liked that idea, because I'm 31 and don't have time to read endless pages of unbroken paragraphs about the number of available toilets in the town of GenericFantasySettlement45-D. This is not written in a way you can just dip into it.

In short this book has too much of the wrong kind of information, and is appallingly presented in terms of accessibility.

So why two stars after all the spleen venting? Because those ten pages of worthwhile stuff are there, as are other people's ideas, and someone has made an effort to make it look pretty pretty. It's just a shame that such a rich campaign setting has been made to look so banal.



Poor Version of the Forgotten Realms, 28 Aug 2008
What were they thinking when they released this ? A real shame and I know some will love this book but compared to previous "Core Settings" releases this just not deserve more than two Stars. I agree with the previous reviewer when he said there were worse products out there - and that is why I gave it two rather than one.

Okay - Why ? Well, there IS a lot of info here... BUT too much banal and surface info. The majority of entries for a Country cover two pages and include artwork within those two pages. Most of the info is unimportant to the setting and they should have been given more "meat" rather than a "Starter" & "Dessert".

As an "old timer" I can fill in many of the omissions but for a new DM then the task will seem mountainous.

The Adventures at the start are okay(ish)but again, based on previous releases, they are average and contrived.

I just hope the next few releases are better

Not what we were waiting for... SPOILERS, 01 Dec 2008
Ed, Ed where for art thou Ed? This isn't what we'd hoped for from the creator of the Forgotten Realms, the very bard himself. I can understand the apathy after what they did to your, heck OUR, beloved Realms in the name of crass commerce, but this outing, indeed all of the books in the trilogy read as more of a *insert name of lesser author here* writing in the style of Ed Greenwood than an offering from the master himself. Contractions? Check. More characters with odd names than one can keep track of? Check. Lesser people speaking their minds to important people and those important people thereby learning? Check. Everyone laughing when that happens except the protagonists? Check? Elminster being irascible? Check.

It's all there, but it doesn't flow, it has no soul and the characters, should I say caricatures?, just don't seem to matter; they seem to be actors playing the Knights and not the Knights themselves, it all feels somehow empty. As to the characters where are they? Merith Strongbow, Lanseril Snowmantle, Illistyl Eleventree, Sharantyr, Mourngrym Amcathra and Shaerl Rowanmantle do not appear in the trilogy. I'll say that again as it may defy belief on the first reading; they don't appear. Torm and Rathan Thentraver are bit parts! You see I've been moved to the use of an exclamation mark in my disbelief. It's arguable that Torm and Rathan are two of the best of the Realms, let alone Ed's stable and they have about three lines each.

It even has stlarning continuity errors for Oghma's sake: Why is Vangerdahast kitting up in a mage's panoply only to sit behind a desk? Poor show Ed. The thing is Ed Greenwood is such a competent writer. He's a man who can not only create a world, but can convey it in rich detail in way which so few other Realms writers can, this tripe is not worthy of him. I recommend his other work, or that of the ever improving R. A. Salvatore.

Sweet water and light laughter then,

pm

A Greenwood novel Par Excellence . . . ., 13 Jul 2000
This book has to be one of the richest and most most diverse of Ed Greenwoods many Forgotten Realms novels. The character of Elminster has everything you expect from a wise sage doing his Goddesses bidding - walking into traps willingly - excellent stuff !

Additionally, the fully fleshed out elven race here has much to commend it. It shows openly that even amongst the elves there is individual hatreds and bitterness - not the more usual holier than thou kind.

The magic in the book is strong and sure of itself and doesn't go out of its way to swamp the storyline too much !

An Excellent book well worth the purchase !

An ok book about Elminster, 28 Jun 2000
The book was good reading, but I found the magic in it confusing at times. The way the spells worked and the way Elminster often could trick mages, by using it in weird ways without explanation of how he did it. But for anyone who likes Elminster (like me) the book is a good read and supplies info on Elminster early adventures.

Not as detailed nor as useful as advertised, 09 Jun 2008
The history of the Forgotten Realms fantasy world is long and complex. Since the Realms first appeared in print in 1987, with the novel Darkwalker on Moonshae and the original first edition of the Forgotten Realms boxed setting, over 210 novels and dozens of game products have been published, each adding to the canon and history of the world. This doesn't include the extensive history and backstory built up by creator Ed Greenwood whilst he ran the Realms as his own private creation for the twenty years prior to that. The story and history of the Realms have become somewhat convoluted in the forty years they have existed.

According to the blurb, The Grand History of the Realms is supposed to detail the complete history of the Realms as explained in the novels, computer games and RPG products previously published. That claim has to be taken with a grain of salt the size of Lake Michigan. It's a suspiciously slim tome for such a grand endeavour, and indeed the events of many novels, sourcebooks, computer games and adventure modules go completely unmentioned in the book, making its worth somewhat dubious. More irritatingly, the book also fails to mention the sources for its dates and events. What is new material and what is old? What comes from existing game products and what comes from the novels? Combined with the lack of an index, this even further lessens the value of the book. Reading up on the Tuigan Invasion is cool, but if you want to delve further into the events, what novels do you read? What game products do you look up? The book doesn't give you any help on that score.

Of course, what makes this all the more irritating is that the original, free version of the book (assembled by Brian R. James when he was just a fan providing a resource to candlekeep.com) does annotate all of its dates with the source in question. And, seperately, other sourcebooks and Dragon magazine articles have provided dates for all of the novels. Combining these sources into the book and providing a more substantial tome would have been more useful.

Unfortunately, the book's biggest hindrance is that it is simply a timeline, not a narrative history, so if you want to read up on the history of Elminster, for example, you have to trawl through the entire book and pick up his story as you go (this is made all the more difficult as, ridiculously, Elminster's birth date is not mentioned either). A narrative history would put together Elminster's history in one chapter and set it in context among the greater history of the world. This book singularly fails to do that. There is also the issue that where certain dating contorversies have emerged, rather than come to some conclusion about each one, the writers have sometimes put in both conflicting dates. As a result some notable historical figures die in a civil war, only to die again in exactly the same civil war fourteen years later. Right.

The next problem is that the transition of the Dungeons and Dragons game from 3rd to 4th Edition, including the adoption of a completely new system of magic, means that the Realms have also got to change and rather than simply retcon the transition (as they did between 2nd and 3rd Edition) the game designers have decided to nuke the Realms by killing the Goddess of Magic (along with about fifty other deities), disrupting the magic system for the planet, nuking an entire continent for no logical reason and devastating several of the others (including Faerun, the main Realms continent). They've also advanced the timeline by 104 years (meaning that about half the characters and NPCs in the Realms that fans are familiar with are suddenly dead of old age). Needless to say, many Realms fans aren't happy about this.

Finally, on the criticism front, the book uses a ton of recycled art, sometimes with wrong or incorrect captions, and some of it is from completely different settings with no relevance to the Realms (the unexplained presence of a warforged - a sort of killer robotic golem - from Eberron being a clear example).

The book does have some saving graces, however. A few loose ends left dangling from 2nd Edition in areas that were not addressed in 3rd (such as the outcome of the Sythillisian War between an empire of ogres and the human merchant kingdom of Amn) are finally resolved, and the timeline advances the current history of the Realms forward by about ten years (before the centry-long leap into 4th Edition), making it slightly easier for Dungeon Masters running games advancing in real time to keep track of what is going on. There's also some fine new pieces of Realmslore, such as the first-ever maps of the Imaskar Empire and the Kingdom of Jhaamdath, and an interesting map depicting the landmasses of Toril when they were just one huge supercontinent. Also, since the book doesn't introduce any new rules, it can be used happily by those who are playing either 3rd or 4th Edition, or even the die-hards still using older systems. That said, although the writers have gone to some lengths not to make it an obvious gaming product (no D&D logo anywhere on the book, encouraging sales to bookshops as well as gaming hobby stores), its worth for non-gamer fans of the Realms, such as perhaps readers of RA Salvatore's Drizzt Do'Urden novels or Paul S. Kemp's Erevis Cale books, is virtually nil due to the lack of focus on many of the events in the novels.

The Grand History of the Realms (**½) is therefore a failure, albeit an ambitious one.

Not especially useful, 16 May 2008
This book is an interesting resource and has it's uses but it's not as helpful as you might expect. According to the introduction the grand history started life as a fan compiled resource, as such it would be an impressive resource. Unfortunately as a book it is of questionable value. It's a bit hit and miss what events are recorded and what are skipped. There is no index which makes it a poor resource for reference. At the same time it's a bit too dry to be much fun to flick through. About the only way to use the book is to read through it which is a very dry experience. In addition it doesn't give references for the resource information originates from so if you want to read further then you need to look it up elsewhere. Brian R. James' unauthorised fan version is actually still available and it is a much more useful resource, it's searchable and it does reference the source of information.

The amount of artwork recycled from else where is shocking, in fact about the only piece of artwork I'm sure isn't recycled is the cover. The book is about 50% sidebars, which are actually pretty interesting but of very marginal use.

About the only reason I can see for this book existing is to pad the schedule before fourth edition is released. Interestingly this book isn't actually under the D&D banner while it is Forgotten Realms branded and is formatted in the same style as other third edition Forgotten Realms books. It has no rules or system related material. I suppose it's sole merit is the it is equally useful (useless) a resource for Fourth Edition.

It's an entertaining oddity but it fails to be a useful resource. Get the unauthorised version for free. If you a hardcore Forgotten Realms fan and the idea of this book appeals then clearly it has some value but even then get the original unauthorised version too.

A good but flawed history book, 30 Dec 2007
First off, if you're not interested in the Forgotten Realms world then this book isn't for you. It has no rules, monsters, feats, spells or anything else that you can use in your own campaign setting. What it has is 160 pages of timeline entries, essays & excerpts of historical lore, and a compiled listing of the rulers through the ages of Faerun's various nations.

As a history book this is very useful to any DM wanting to set his game in the Realms, as it makes it easier (but still not particularly easy as the book lacks an index) to find mention of events and the sequence in which they occured. Some of this is fascinating reading, and at times (if you know how events turn out) there is the sense of impending doom as each entry leads towards some unfortunate event (Annihilation of Jhaamdath, Fall of Netheril etc).

The book however suffers from several flaws that whuile they by no means ruin the work, they do lessen it considerably. I've already mentioned the lack of an index, but I'll add to that that the timeline is far from complete and there are many events in novels and sourcebooks that aren't listed here (the destruction of the city of Cursrah in -6048DR for example). Also while the book features some (but not nearly enough) new maps, it uses almost entirely recycled artwork from other works, many of which are not paticularly well suited to what they are used to represent (the most obvious being the Warforged from the Eberron setting).

In short if you run or are planning to run a campaign in the Forgotten Realms then get this book, but don't expect it to hold all the answers or for you to be easily able to find those answers it does hold.

Very nice book, 03 Oct 2007
I just got this book as a gift for my birthday. I have played many games in the realms and I love to read the literature set in them. As anther review has said this book has very little to interest players and it will only help a DM if they need want to know the order of events. But I do have one gripe, this book uses pictures published in other books, one instance has a character on horse back with a shield with the logo of the Halfling god from the core books. I didn't consider this so bad but it also contains images of Warforged from Eberron which seemed just an excuse not to get new art drawn. This comment is not to moan but to explain why I gave it only four stars.


Good History Book!!, 02 Oct 2007
If your interested in the history of the Realms, meaning what happened, this is the book for you. According to me any FR fan should have this book as it is something that hasn't ever been printed before. Needles to say you won't be using this book in your games if at all. Maybe a DM if he likes to be chronologically accurate impressing his players with extra knowledge and thus flavor.
Its interesting if you have read many FR literature books and want to find out when (and in relation to other event) very important events took place. If you are a collector its nice to have. if you are an obscure FR knowledge freak its mandatory to have. If you are an occasional player/reader and do not care much about the Toril happenings this isn't the book for you!
Overall its well enough planned, with some good art and an impressive cover and a lot of data. However I was looking for index of events and was disappointed.

Elminster the younger years, 02 Jan 2008
All characters in a Dungeons and Dragons scenario have to start somewhere.
This book shows the development of Elminster from being a young boy losing his family to being a mage who worships the ground that Mystra walks on.
For those used to reading the Forgotten Realms sagas, this certainly shows Elminster as his most basic level.
Those who have played D&D may recognise the background of Elminster starting out as a vagabond fighter/outlaw and after a while puts it aside to develop as a Thief.
Enjoy this book but be warned it may take the shine off Elminster for you, he may have a dark past you never suspected.



High expectations..., 10 Sep 2003
I had such high expectations when I bought this book. Elminster was after all a major mage in FR campaign setting and I wanted to hear his tale. I had also read something else by Greenwood and I had liked it. Let me be frank about this book: it is a terrible book. It is filled with cliches to such an extent that it was painful to read it at times. So Elminster went on being a fighter, a cleric, a thief and then he became a mage. Really... how interesting. Now there was a tale to be told about Elminster's youth, but this was not it. I do not even like the old bugger anymore after reading this :-) Heh. Oh well.

A great introduction to the legendary Elminster., 02 Jan 2003
If you ask any Forgotten Realms player to name a wizard that exists in Forgotten Realms universe you will most likely find that 95% of your responses will give you that name, Elminster.
For those of you that don't know, Elminster, is one of the Goddess of magic's chosen, and possibly the most powerful magic user in the Forgotten Realms.

The Making of a Mage takes you back to the beginning of Elminster's story. How as a young boy he witnesses his village being destroyed by a dragon-riding Mage-Lord, and the then solemn vow he makes to avenge all those that died in the attack, including his father, and to destroy all magic using people that would use their art in such a cruel and destructive manner.
At 12 years of age, Elminster, has no idea of the scope of this task, nor in fact that the attack had purposely been targeting him and his father.
The subsequent years find Elminster taking on various vocations in his quest for vengeance, including being an outlaw, a thief, and of course finally, a mage.
The path that leads from, Elminster, being a vehemence hater of magic to the beginnings of his love affair with the art is well told and believable.

I recently wrote to review of the book SpellFire, which Ed Greenwood also wrote, and I was quite surprised at first at how different these two books are. I gave SpellFire a four-star rating, though really I did mean it to be only a three-star rating.
The reason that I found them so different -so much so that they could have been by different authors- is that the dialogue is crisper, and certainly less juvenile. It's amazing how much improvement in writing style can occur in six years, and that improvement combined with a great character, and a good plot made The Making of a Mage an enjoyable read. The only thing I would like to have seen is some stronger villains in the story, as none of them really stood out to me.

In conclusion, The Making of a Mage is a good book that is worth your time, and certainly a vast improvement over some of Ed's earlier work in my opinion, and a great introduction to one of the Forgotten Realms most famous characters.

this is an incredible book, i recommend it to any reader., 02 May 2001
elminster is an incredible story. i highly recommend it to any reader young and old. usually when a book starts off good, it tends to get boring later, but Elminster starts good and ends great!!!

Exciting theme - average author, 12 Mar 1999
The Making of a Mage is a book for strong fantasy roleplaying fans, and then especially for those who love the Forgotten Realms setting by TSR. The book tells the first part of the story of Elminster the most powerful magician in the world. He starts out as little boy after a terrible tragedy in the family, and finds himself on the road to becomming a mage. Off course, this is not a easy road, and the young Elminster is constanly being challenged for his choice in "profession". Among other trials he is transformed into a woman! We follows him into his first encounters with the godess of Magic, Mystra, and the start of their special relationship. Well, as I said do you love the Forgotten Realms you probably will enjoy this book. Greenwod is an exellent game designer (maybe the best) but as an author he becomes to simple. It never becomes exciting and you feel that you always know what will be on the next page.

Better than the over-detailed morass that was 3.5 ed Realms., 17 Sep 2008
Personally, as someone whose group isn't massively in love with the detail of the realms this comes as a breath of fresh air as it means that I actually get to create stuff on the fly more easily than before.

Well presented and full of ideas, 04 Sep 2008
Simply put, the writers of this volume had the arduous task of trying to keep the existing Realms players happy whilst, at the same time, providing a new and updated Realms for players starting a campaign for the first time (probably on the back of the 4th Edition Rules).

In essence, this product is very good and, having been a DM since the 1980s, this is one of the best campaign guides produced to date. There will be some obvious objections to the new Realms from existing players who are reluctant to change. However, if you don't like the changes then don't worry, the whole purpose of a product like this is to be a guide only, providing the bare bones of a campaign for you to develop yourself, and you are not obliged to blindly follow everything that is written. In other words, if you don't like the changes, stick to what you do like.

As for the rest of us, the guide provides an exciting changed world to explore. Fabulous.

Interesting Direction for an Old Friend, 01 Sep 2008
The Forgotten Realms has always been a problem to me - inspiring and yet impractical. I loved the feel of the setting, the age of it, the depth, the detail, and yet these were all of its problems too. The feel made it always generic, the age of it made it always hampered by the past, the depth made it a chore to run, and the detail made fans irritating to play with.
Ultimately, personal knowledge shouldn't affect in game knowledge to the degree which it did. A new-coming DM to Toril couldn't effectively run it if there were players in his or her group who loved it - they would spend forever correcting the DM on the authenticity of the setting. It's not that these players were *bad*, just that the setting was so static and so rich and so persuasive that it was hard to escape the idea that it should all be *exactly as written*. Beware the DM who would dare to change anything.
But this was by no means the only issue. Big NPCs dominated Toril. Drizzt and Elminster were more recognisable than the setting as a whole, and the number of awful "cameos" that occured in games was atrocious... as for the novels, the less said the better.
What about the variety of terrain and setting? In theory this was great - you can set your game in almost any surrounding and it'll still be the Forgotten Realms. You want trading cities and costal areas? The Sword Coast. You want exotic locales and organisations? Calisham! You want frozen wastes? The Silver Marches! You want to rip off Lord of the Rings? The Dalelands! So what was the problem with this? Well, ultimately, it was scale. Forgotten Realms worked well with this theory of specific location until you hit about 10th level, when the entire thing fell apart. Soon, reliable and quick long distance transportation was available. The idea of a cohesive world disappears when you can be in desert one minute, and ice fields the next. So how has this changed?

Well, 4th edition includes a lot fewer transport spells, and the folding of teleportation into Rituals (with which you need a "portal key") means that mundane transport is often the way you go first, and then use teleportation when you need to over long distances from set point to set point. Travel thus takes longer, the dramatic differences in setting aren't so obvious, and the world feels a lot more cohesive. The splitting of the game into tiers also helps, as it gives DMs more warning of when to prepare for these changes.

So what does the new setting look like? Well, Mystra is finally dead. FINALLY. I mean, seriously, is this like the fourth time? NEVER BRING HER BACK. The Spellplague changes the layout of the map in a big way, as does the bashing of Abeir into Toril. Hello new races, bye bye old races.

But what's the point of saying this, really? Old fans are going to be angry - "They got rid of gods! They changed the map!" Boo hoo. The setting needed a desperate change - it's been more or less static (on a fundemental level) for years and years. The changes are interesting, smartly done, and the changes to the system make the setting work well. In the end, if you loved Drizzt and co, and hate the idea of not knowing every single event of the setting, then stay away.

For the rest of us, this is an interesting, stunningly beautiful book. The entries are perhaps a little short, but this leaves freedom in the details whilst really giving you a feel for the setting and countries. There are a lot of new monsters, good info on antagonist groups, a lovely poster map, and interesting discussion of the world in general as well as the specific entries. The major criticisms are, perhaps, only that some of the old issues are still there (the odd mix and match of terrain amongst other things), and that occasionally an important piece of information is missing (how big is the population of Waterdeep ay? AY?). Still, an excellent buy.

Drab, dreary details, 30 Aug 2008
Firstly, it's worth pointing out that this is not a rulebook. That may be obvious to some, but I expected something with a few new races, some class-specific traits, new spells, that kind of thing. This is just background to the Realms. I assume -but can't say for sure- that Forgotten Realms Player's Guide (Forgotten Realms Supplement) (Dungeons & Dragons) (Dungeons & Dragons) will be more what I'm looking for, and the fact that WotC have split this into two books is a source of some irritation to me.

I agree with the other reviewers that this is just a wall of bland data. It puts me in mind of the First Edition FR Campaign Guide in terms of sheer volume of endless words; but that was clearly written entirely by people (Greenwood et al, but different et al) who had played in that world and loved it. Their passion for the mythos was there in every word. This just reads like some hack with a deadline and a wordcount to meet sat, wrote ten pages of worthwhile stuff, cut and pasted other peoples ideas to fill in the cracks, then filled the rest with whatever came to mind while they were drunk watching Krull.

And it's a real shame. Because the idea of 4th Ed was that it was supposed to be simple building blocks that even the most ADHD ridden kid could pick up and play like they'd pick up their PS3 controller. I love rules, but I also quite liked that idea, because I'm 31 and don't have time to read endless pages of unbroken paragraphs about the number of available toilets in the town of GenericFantasySettlement45-D. This is not written in a way you can just dip into it.

In short this book has too much of the wrong kind of information, and is appallingly presented in terms of accessibility.

So why two stars after all the spleen venting? Because those ten pages of worthwhile stuff are there, as are other people's ideas, and someone has made an effort to make it look pretty pretty. It's just a shame that such a rich campaign setting has been made to look so banal.



Poor Version of the Forgotten Realms, 28 Aug 2008
What were they thinking when they released this ? A real shame and I know some will love this book but compared to previous "Core Settings" releases this just not deserve more than two Stars. I agree with the previous reviewer when he said there were worse products out there - and that is why I gave it two rather than one.

Okay - Why ? Well, there IS a lot of info here... BUT too much banal and surface info. The majority of entries for a Country cover two pages and include artwork within those two pages. Most of the info is unimportant to the setting and they should have been given more "meat" rather than a "Starter" & "Dessert".

As an "old timer" I can fill in many of the omissions but for a new DM then the task will seem mountainous.

The Adventures at the start are okay(ish)but again, based on previous releases, they are average and contrived.

I just hope the next few releases are better

Not what we were waiting for... SPOILERS, 01 Dec 2008
Ed, Ed where for art thou Ed? This isn't what we'd hoped for from the creator of the Forgotten Realms, the very bard himself. I can understand the apathy after what they did to your, heck OUR, beloved Realms in the name of crass commerce, but this outing, indeed all of the books in the trilogy read as more of a *insert name of lesser author here* writing in the style of Ed Greenwood than an offering from the master himself. Contractions? Check. More characters with odd names than one can keep track of? Check. Lesser people speaking their minds to important people and those important people thereby learning? Check. Everyone laughing when that happens except the protagonists? Check? Elminster being irascible? Check.

It's all there, but it doesn't flow, it has no soul and the characters, should I say caricatures?, just don't seem to matter; they seem to be actors playing the Knights and not the Knights themselves, it all feels somehow empty. As to the characters where are they? Merith Strongbow, Lanseril Snowmantle, Illistyl Eleventree, Sharantyr, Mourngrym Amcathra and Shaerl Rowanmantle do not appear in the trilogy. I'll say that again as it may defy belief on the first reading; they don't appear. Torm and Rathan Thentraver are bit parts! You see I've been moved to the use of an exclamation mark in my disbelief. It's arguable that Torm and Rathan are two of the best of the Realms, let alone Ed's stable and they have about three lines each.

It even has stlarning continuity errors for Oghma's sake: Why is Vangerdahast kitting up in a mage's panoply only to sit behind a desk? Poor show Ed. The thing is Ed Greenwood is such a competent writer. He's a man who can not only create a world, but can convey it in rich detail in way which so few other Realms writers can, this tripe is not worthy of him. I recommend his other work, or that of the ever improving R. A. Salvatore.

Sweet water and light laughter then,

pm

A Greenwood novel Par Excellence . . . ., 13 Jul 2000
This book has to be one of the richest and most most diverse of Ed Greenwoods many Forgotten Realms novels. The character of Elminster has everything you expect from a wise sage doing his Goddesses bidding - walking into traps willingly - excellent stuff !

Additionally, the fully fleshed out elven race here has much to commend it. It shows openly that even amongst the elves there is individual hatreds and bitterness - not the more usual holier than thou kind.

The magic in the book is strong and sure of itself and doesn't go out of its way to swamp the storyline too much !

An Excellent book well worth the purchase !

An ok book about Elminster, 28 Jun 2000
The book was good reading, but I found the magic in it confusing at times. The way the spells worked and the way Elminster often could trick mages, by using it in weird ways without explanation of how he did it. But for anyone who likes Elminster (like me) the book is a good read and supplies info on Elminster early adventures.

Not as detailed nor as useful as advertised, 09 Jun 2008
The history of the Forgotten Realms fantasy world is long and complex. Since the Realms first appeared in print in 1987, with the novel Darkwalker on Moonshae and the original first edition of the Forgotten Realms boxed setting, over 210 novels and dozens of game products have been published, each adding to the canon and history of the world. This doesn't include the extensive history and backstory built up by creator Ed Greenwood whilst he ran the Realms as his own private creation for the twenty years prior to that. The story and history of the Realms have become somewhat convoluted in the forty years they have existed.

According to the blurb, The Grand History of the Realms is supposed to detail the complete history of the Realms as explained in the novels, computer games and RPG products previously published. That claim has to be taken with a grain of salt the size of Lake Michigan. It's a suspiciously slim tome for such a grand endeavour, and indeed the events of many novels, sourcebooks, computer games and adventure modules go completely unmentioned in the book, making its worth somewhat dubious. More irritatingly, the book also fails to mention the sources for its dates and events. What is new material and what is old? What comes from existing game products and what comes from the novels? Combined with the lack of an index, this even further lessens the value of the book. Reading up on the Tuigan Invasion is cool, but if you want to delve further into the events, what novels do you read? What game products do you look up? The book doesn't give you any help on that score.

Of course, what makes this all the more irritating is that the original, free version of the book (assembled by Brian R. James when he was just a fan providing a resource to candlekeep.com) does annotate all of its dates with the source in question. And, seperately, other sourcebooks and Dragon magazine articles have provided dates for all of the novels. Combining these sources into the book and providing a more substantial tome would have been more useful.

Unfortunately, the book's biggest hindrance is that it is simply a timeline, not a narrative history, so if you want to read up on the history of Elminster, for example, you have to trawl through the entire book and pick up his story as you go (this is made all the more difficult as, ridiculously, Elminster's birth date is not mentioned either). A narrative history would put together Elminster's history in one chapter and set it in context among the greater history of the world. This book singularly fails to do that. There is also the issue that where certain dating contorversies have emerged, rather than come to some